Cate Blanchett as Hela in "Thor: Ragnarok" with Joi Childs

In this episode we discuss another Cate Blanchett foray into playing a villian in a big blockbuster; as Hela the goddess of death in Thor: Ragnarok (2017). Other topics discussed include the Marvel cinematic universe, who's the best Chris and Taika Waititi's singular comedic vision. Hosted by Murtada Elfadl with guest writer and critic Joi Childs, host of The Color Grade podcast.

Transcript

spk_0:   0:00
What do you do on Sunday? Way talked about Cate Blanchett, the actors, costumes, the awards, but mostly Blanchard of it all. I'm not acting thing is a mother. You Erica. This is Sunday's escaped and I'm your host. Or Todd. I'll welcome to Sunday's Escape, our podcast series about the films of Cate Blanchett. This is your host, Martin. L fuck. And today we're talking about sore riding a rock. And my guess is writer and critic Joy Childs.

spk_1:   0:44
Yeah, I'm very excited.

spk_0:   0:48
I'm excited to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for coming on to talk about so ragged Iraq.

spk_1:   0:53
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting me Us? You have great cast guests in the past. I'm, like, very excited to be included in that number. So I am very excited.

spk_0:   1:02
The excitement is mutual, and I wanted to We want to talk about Thor. So Kate is known for doing these villain roles in big studio movies. She did Cinderella. She did Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. And then she did sore. So to supplement, I guess her theatre work and her art movies. She does these big movies where she plays villains. And this was the latest one that she did in 2017. So Thor Ragnarok is from I am D be about four. Obviously, Improve was imprisoned on the planet, and he must race against time to return to Asgard and stop ride Renard the restriction of his world at the hands of the powerful and ruthless villain Hella. So let me ask you first, joy as a reader, off comics, Are you familiar? And did you know Hella before the movie

spk_1:   1:58
I knew off Hella I will be candidate saying that Thor is not my most favorite comic book character from the Marvel franchise. Personally, I did read the Jane Foster Thor run. A bit of it on really enjoyed it. For those who aren't aware, there was not alternate universe but part of the all new, all different Marvel Series back when Axel Alonso, if I remember correctly, was editor in chief, they did a lot of different new characters, assuming the mantle of, you know, traditional characters. So you had re read, you know, uh, being Iron Heart being the new Iron Man, you obviously have Sam Wilson taking the mental of Captain America and you had Jane Foster is a new Thor. And so her story line was that she actually was suffering from cancer. And when she assumed the Power AA Milne Air, which is the hammer, she was able to some of those powers. And she would be essentially healthy at the time that she was Thor. So actually the fourth or it seems, I don't know if they're goingto have. There's debate on whether or not they're going to have the cancer story line in it. But Natalie Portman is coming back in the fourth or that will be written, directed by Tyco. What, Edie for 11 thunder. And she will be playing Jane Foster s Thor so loosely based on that comic book series.

spk_0:   3:19
Oh, cool. I wonder if hello will be coming back. Maybe not.

spk_1:   3:24
Maybe, Maybe not. I mean, like when record what happened in the movie like we're jumping a little bit. But like when Ragnarok happened in the movie, it seemed like it was very definitive. Does she was dead, but you never know. They bring back Loki everywhere every time. So, like, why not?

spk_0:   3:37
Yeah, I think that's a barbell staple people come back from the dead pretty much so. Hella is the as guardian goddess of death, and she also happened to be the first Marvel cinematic universe major female villain. So that was a milestone, I think, when this movie was released about two and 1/2 years ago.

spk_1:   3:57
Yeah, I would definitely agree with that. Like, I think the right they pick the right person with Kate. You mentioned in the intro on She Has a She's very good. She's very good as an actress, period, but she has a good pension for playing, you know, villains. I just think it's her commitment to her craft and her commitment to the rules, no matter how crazy. Ridiculous. And I appreciated that and seeing that on screen, I was very excited when it was announced that she was gonna be playing Hello, because originally in the comics, Hell is not actually ah, sibling of Thor and Loki. She's actually the daughter of Loki, and so I thought it was really interesting that they made them siblings and deviated from the original, the original kind of like comic lore, but I ended up liking what they did with it. I thought it was interesting.

spk_0:   4:41
And they did give her the Loki look. So the dark hair very black and the smoky eyes she doesn't really. Kate doesn't look like Tom Hiddleston. But they have the same hairdresser, I guess.

spk_1:   4:53
Yeah. Oh, definitely. You know, the dark, that pit that, like Jet Black one be hair that she had was not my favorite thing. Personally, I don't think I look good on her. It's just not it doesn't fit her personality, but I think she's off for the sake of the character.

spk_0:   5:08
So I'm gonna ask you for It's just general impression on Marvel films. Where do you think? So Ragnarok sort of. Stax was in the Marvel universe.

spk_1:   5:18
Okay, so I'm a big marble fan. If anybody who knows me personally or sees me tweet on Twitter, I am a big marvel cinematic universe fan. I've seen all the films,

spk_0:   5:26
which is why you are on this podcast. You're the expert.

spk_1:   5:29
Thank you. Um, but yeah, I am a big marvel fan. I've been watching the film since 2008. I vividly remember my dad taking me to see the first Iron Man when I was like 16 17 years old. So it's been a part of my life. It's been a part of my growing up, literally. So they're they're excited, eh? So we had 23 films in Total in the Marvel cinematic universe. If I'm 23 or 22 I would say this one is, uh I said, this is my This is in my top 10. Um, I will say by by a long shot. This is the best tor film like it's not a debate. It is definitely the best Tor film. The 1st 4 films, if you guys were familiar with the 1st 1 was kind of like a part of the original. You know, Thor was one of the original Avengers when, in terms of the setting up of the Marvel cinematic universe and so they obviously had he was like their third remember incorrectly, their third solo kind of like trilogy. So obviously, Iron Man, you had Captain America, and then Thor had his The 1st 1 was very Shakespearean in a little bit of like, fish out of water story of a Norse God being put into, like, American modern, you know, time frame. You know, hilarity ensues. I think there are things that work well with it, things that did not work well with the dyed eyebrows. God bless Chris Hemsworth that he had toe be subjected to is still an iconic in a bad way. Look for him. We then move on to the Avengers, where Thor, as a character, was definitely ah, heavy heavy hitter in terms of his strength. But like not necessarily one that necessarily stood out, you had a very serious, serious demeanor towards him. Ah, bit of haughtiness to him. You know, I am holier than thou because he is a god. And so you worked well with the team, and he did not necessarily stand out as a character. Then you get to Thor to Thor the Dark World, which is a terrible film

spk_0:   7:30
kind of scene, that it's so boring.

spk_1:   7:33
It's not great. It suddenly, like Mike Lee's favorite marble film of all time, probably like interest. It's my bottom, I think, for the purpose of like introducing that infinity stone great everything else you can throw in the trash. The relationship between Thor and Loki is strong in this film, but other than that man poor Natalie Portman, she just couldn't catch a break in terms off getting, you know, proper character development and really having something to do as Jane Foster.

spk_0:   8:03
Yeah. I mean, see, quit after that.

spk_1:   8:07
Yes, you look, I'm done. I get out of it. And funny enough, like so a fun fact. The second Thor film was actually able to be like she actually campaigned hard for the second. Thor is going to be directed by Patty Jenkins. For those who are listening to the podcast who are not familiar, Patty Jenkins has directed the Wonder Woman solo phone the 2nd 1 1984 which will be coming out soon. So she campaigned hard. I think they were very close to nearing the deal, and then it didn't work. It didn't pan out. So I think that there was just a level of bitterness, understandable bitterness in terms of that character and her getting a female director like behind the camp, you know, behind the screen to really like Lena Man the ship. But obviously bad. He's worked out well for himself. You know that we Portman as her own story career. So like everybody's happy. But it's not till you get to Thor Ragnarok that you you get into the reins of now. Oscar winning Taeko. A TV. Let's look a

spk_0:   9:00
little bit about Helena. So Helen is introduced 20 minutes into the film. So Kate fans, I'm sorry you have to wait a little dead. And she appears when Odin dies, I mean, he dies because Loki did something wrong, right? But anyway, whatever Loki did freeze hello from this prison that she's been in from millennia, and she comes out and meets her brothers, Thor and Loki, and immediately destroy stores Hammer. So it's it is kind of a big impact introduction. It's a star in joke. A bunch is star. Hella is a major character. She's the villain, so she gets the star treatment.

spk_1:   9:39
Absolutely. That breaking up the hammer is like super important to that story, right? Because Thor has to learn how to be resourceful without literally his major weapon. Like

spk_0:   9:55
so he's gone. Shame. I would have liked to have seen that you must be held force. Really? You don't look like him. Perhaps we can come to an arrangement. You sound like him, Neil. I beg your pardon. New before your queen. I didn't think so thing possible. Darling, you have no idea what

spk_1:   10:49
Thor is powerful. But like he threw up a hill. It's about him, not only through, you know, brotherhood and adventurer and in comedy and like humor and all that fun stuff. But like throughout the film, like, you know, Thor is dealing with a lot of loss. Like he's lost many people of his life. Like he thought he lost his brother until you know, the 1st 20 minutes of the film, right? Yeah. No, he lost. He loses his father in the film, right? Just lost his least lost his love in terms of Jane not being in his life anymore. So all of these moments of loss that he's experiencing, he now must, like, go and find out in a way like a self fulfilling my quest of who he is. And the first thing you do with that is what do you do you get when you take away the one thing that gives him a sense of comfort Also lost his mother last. Yeah. Yeah. So all this moments of loss and you it's exactly like his feeling of loss and guilt and grieving is accelerated. in infancy, Worn in game to the Max Rager. You start to see the showings of him cracking under pressure and him trying tow, you know, move on. And so what do you do when someone needs to go on an adventure of self journey and know how strong they are without their crutch? You get rid of the thing that is the crutch. And so you get rid of the hammer and so have having Kate removed that breaking that it's so powerful and really set the tone of the film.

spk_0:   12:18
Yeah, I did such a good scene. You know, you you don't expect the Thor Hammer is such a big thing in the mythology. And so for it to be destroyed within the first half hour of the movie and destroyed by this new character that's being introduced into the universe just tells you she's formidable. Which sort of begs the question. The media has kind of said that Marvel has a villain problem for the longest time. But then in the last few years, they introduced hella. They introduce a nose, they deduce kill monger. So do you think that they've sold their villain problem? Or maybe they never had one.

spk_1:   12:56
So I will say this. I think in the fate like early Marvel films, face one of phase two. I would say that the villains were forgettable, I think in the most recent phase with Kill Monger Hella with Danos. Obviously characters like that these are definitely more memorable villains. Now fighting has been on record saying that, like the villains are the reason why I, like a lot of the villains die or what contributes to live billings. Dying is the story's not about them, it's about the heroes, and I think that that is a fair assessment rate. So though we love Hello and Kay is a bad ass in this home, like the film is ultimately about four thorns journey. And so, you know, at the end it's going to be hopefully something that wraps around, you know, arc for him and how he grows as a character. And he does. He turns kingly. He becomes the king that he's supposed to be. Do I think they have much better villains and prior phases? Yes. Do you like it? Doesn't suck sometimes. Like good villains don't get to live beyond Loki Shore. I would say that.

spk_0:   14:14
So this actually brings us to my main problem with Hella in this movie in that she gets this amazing, fantastic introduction. She's the goddess of death. She's stronger than everyone. She's, you know, just all consuming smashes the hammer. Her power is all encompassing. And then she gets sidelined into a completely other movie with Keith Urban as her lackey, and we don't get to see her interact with any of the main cast until the fight. She gets one scene with sore and then the final sort of battle, and that's it, Which is was my main problem. I'm like, If if she's this powerful, why isn't she in more of the story? And then I think maybe take it was more interested in the body comedy between a Mark Ruffalo and Chris Hemsworth.

spk_1:   15:09
Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's really what it is like whence they leave. Like once they leave Asgard and they move on Thio, you know, getting kidnapped. The taskmaster brand royal him running into the two Hoke him being introduced of Al Khoury That way, all those things right like that that takes up the story, right? And you don't really get interaction with Helen until they return back to Asgard. Thio battle her finally more well equipped because now you know, he feels like he has what he needs. So he feels like the powers within him. She's able to fight her correctly. You have thunder coming through his body. It's like, OK, shit. Like you are now the Thor that we thought you were, right? Yeah. So all those air, Great. It makes her a great fight scene. You get some great moments, but I can definitely see and understand the criticism of, like, Hella is such a interesting character, and Kate very much commits to it. And so to get sidelined with ah, Carl orbit is like, uh,

spk_0:   16:14
yeah, it's not that, but get gets a great intro like that. First scene is great. And then she gets one more scene with Chris Hemsworth was four in Is it the throne room where they sort of fight and try to one up each other with catchphrases and one liners and power and that that's like a fun scene and I would have liked to I mean, they are antagonists, so it's not like the the buddy comedy can be Helen for But I would just have liked to see maybe instead of just one scene between them or two scenes maybe like five. See something like that. Sister, you're still alive. But what you don't like please redecorating or see? It seems our father's solution to every problem was to cover it up. But what it costed out. I told you, you were worthy said the same thing to me. You see, you never knew him. Not at his best. Odin

spk_1:   17:20
and I drummed entire civilizations in blood and tears. Where do you

spk_0:   17:25
think all this gold came from? And then one day he decided to become a benevolent king to foster peace, to protect life, to have you. I understand why you're angry. And while my sister and technically have a claim to the throne. I believe me. I would love for someone else to rule. But it can't be you. You just the worst. Okay, get up. You're in my seat. Yeah. Your father wants toe. A wise king never seeks out, but must always be ready.

spk_1:   18:06
Be honest. Expected.

spk_0:   18:09
Here's the difference between us. I know. DNS. First born the rightful heir, the savior of Asco and you're nothing. Even a blind man could see it.

spk_1:   18:20
Millie remind me of Dad. I will say, like if you did a body count count of people who have been killed on screen that are villains in the empty You Hella is right under a fan knows she got a lot of people in that in that film

spk_0:   18:36
she did. She's ruthless.

spk_1:   18:39
She is like that has killed a lot of folks. And to be fair, like this is across multiple multiple film for him. But like Hella is definitely the the second most like bloodthirsty villain in the emcee. You.

spk_0:   18:52
So I want to ask you something so I don't follow Marvel as closely and I don't know as much. But I remember because I follow Kate after sore was released or Ragnarok was released. There was a lot of chatter online that there's something about her and Santos meeting in the Avengers. And people were going Oh, yeah, hell is gonna come back. Is there something in the comics about Helen and Santo's?

spk_1:   19:16
Yes. So this version of Helen is the goddess of death. So in the comics, the reason why fan knows is trying to get rid of half of half the world and destroyed half the world and do the the snap to make the half the world disappear is because he is trying to court death the goddess of death, because he's in love with her. And so that's why now this version of Hela is different where, uh, like again based on the comics. Her recreation of Helen is separate from the goddess of death, and she is the daughter of Loki. And so the fact that they combined the two people were assuming like there is a chance that if they make the story line, the the reasoning for Santos is bloodthirsty. Nous to rid of half the world is because he's trying to court death and he's in love with depth and he's essentially trying to impress her. Then hello must come back. They obviously change the story. Line up Infinity! Infinity war! An endgame where that is not his motivations for reading. Half the world is more so, making the world infinitely balanced, perfectly balanced so they don't use the motivation from the comics.

spk_0:   20:19
Oh God, it let's look a little bit about Hellas looks so one of my favorite things, and this is her look like the skin tight jumpsuit, which the detail that I really loved about that was the bare shoulders kiss and then the walk. Because Kate has this distinctive walk as hell, and I think that the bare shoulders are extenuating even more by the way she walks. And even though I I'm like you, I wasn't a huge fan of the Smokey Eye makeup, but I really love the jumpsuit and the bare shoulders

spk_1:   20:50
so the jump see end the helmet are just so damn near comic accurate, like they really nail the look of hela with the with the horns. Gorgeous. Very well done. Um, and I think Kate again because she commits to the role like Leans into it. There's like she's very, um, Sidnoey in terms of how she walks. It's very snake like, and I think it works for the green, as she's going with. It's a bit of a slithering movement that she does very central in nature, but not like super so like it's a nice balance of sensual, slavering, commanding, powerful. She just works. He nails it, I think, and I think the look helps accentuate that?

spk_0:   21:36
Yeah. I mean, I love when she's she's walking and then she throws her hand forward and the swords come out of it. Are they soared? Whatever. They come out of their hands, you know, some chopping things,

spk_1:   21:47
like daggers, whatever those are, like fantastic to. Also, I also thought it might have been a little tip of the hat. This is my thinking was like when I first saw it in theaters. I thought it might have been a little tip of the hat to her comic book origins of her being the daughter of Loki. Because Loki has a scene in the film where he has both daggers come out of his hands in the final fight scene. So I was like, I don't know if that's a little tip of the hat to the fact that he's done that before. That might just be mean, looking way too deeply into it. But I did love that that movement of just like power and it's just a stance, and then you have these weapons that will kill you coming

spk_0:   22:26
out. Yeah, no, she's fun. And she's Oh, she's always a full body performance. Like she acts with her whole body and you really see it in this film like she catch to your point. She committed to this and, you know, every walk, every look, just it's so much fun to watch her, Um, which is why I wanted to watch her was more than just Karl Urban and Asgard.

spk_1:   22:51
Yeah, I mean, look, there's there's there's a lot of ground that you've gotta cover in these films. But I think fair enough, like there's she's just you wanna watch. You just want to like watching and like, see her move.

spk_0:   23:04
Yeah, I wanted also to ask you about Taeko, a TV and his irreverent tone and what he brought to four. But this was my like, my favorite thing about this movie is the sort of tongue in cheek tone of it

spk_1:   23:16
Taika hat, you know, very well known for films like The Boy, Very well known for films like What We Do in the Shadows. He is very particular in his vision and by particular I mean, he is ridiculous and e try, he really punches up the humor in the color in It's in This World like this is Jack Kirby are on a screen, and you not only get his comedy, his vision, his color really pay homage to the Kirby error of four films that would look and feel like an acid trip when you're seeing them on a comic book page. But on top of that, you also get certain nods and tips of the hat to his heritage of him being Meharry being of indigenous, uh, ethnicity. And so all those things blend into this wonderful medley of someone who understands Thor the character and really takes it into a light hearted way. That energy and that presence that he creates and for Ragnarok now carries on into in game now carries on into Infinity War. And we get to see Thor be the Thor that we always knew he could be.

spk_0:   24:29
Yes, and so you think that take a was very influential Too much

spk_1:   24:35
absolutely like, you know, for for for many, many reasons like that was he waas if if I'm remembering correctly and y'all drag me from wrong. First of all, Tycho was Tiger was the first person of color to every director Marvel film because and that I think that tracks because, uh, Black Panther didn't come out till 18 2018

spk_0:   24:58
through this. It was the one after, wasn't it?

spk_1:   25:00
Yes. So a black president come out till 2018? So in February. So that's the case then. Tyco was the first person of color ever direct a Marvel film in the Marvel cinematic universe, which is a big deal, right? But you know, when you think about the new direction and the vision in the future of what Marble could be, you know, phase for and beyond. That's Taika. That's you know that's Ryan Coogler. That's directors like that who have a specific vision for these universes and, you know, really take it and run with them. They do it in their own voice, you know. He also is a great fun fat. He is also the first director to break the trilogy occurs where you know four have three films. Iron Man Captain America had three films, but Thor is now getting 1/4 film, 11 Thunder, and they have not had a solo film. Following one of the emcee you characters get beyond forfeit, get beyond three films,

spk_0:   25:57
which is funny because store has always been like the store. Movies have always been kind of the B movies or even see movies until Thor Ragnarok.

spk_1:   26:06
Exactly. So the fact that they're really doing the makeup because I think they recognize that they under your lies for for many years since like, 0 2011 2012 is when the storm came out, I think the first movie. So they underutilized them. And the fact that this character has now outlasted all the other trilogy you know, characters like at the end of this is that spoil? The film has been out over a year. Y'all can keep up with it. But like at the end of two

spk_0:   26:37
years, two and

spk_1:   26:38
a like in game Tony Stark is dead. Captain America has gone back in time and he is now old man. But the original three of like the three powerful likes leader figure heads off the Avengers. The only one left who is now, you know, on a ship going to go to new adventures is Thor and he in with them and taking and staying on that ship with the guardians of the galaxy. He is now going off to lead like a new arm of the M. See you in the space, you know, dimension. And it's rightfully so because, you know, Asgard was our first rule introduction to space in the M C. U. But there wasn't Yoon implies well, and so it gave James Gunn the opportunity to really crow Walk that and crack that the guardians of the Galaxy. But the space space area and space section of the M. C. U. Has always been four. That should be thorns to lead. So now that I have him back in his rightful place, getting the respect that he deserves, utilizing him in the right ways and films now it's time for him to really, like, lean into the Space Odyssey aspect that we don't. We didn't necessarily get until we got to Thor Ragnarok.

spk_0:   27:53
Yeah, and yes, take a isn't it? To voicing one of the characters. And then we have the buddy comedy between four and the Hulk, and then, you know somebody we haven't talked about yet. It says Thompson is Valkyrie, who also it's very funny. And so they're all It's as if this is the Marvel comedy. Do you think that you can call it that?

spk_1:   28:17
Oh, yeah. I think you know what I would even say that it's a marble comedy. I just think it's a taika comedy, like I just think it just fits his tone of voice very acutely. Like, I think a common feedback point that somebody is a lot of people were saying was that there's some folks that really enjoyed it and, like, really loved it. And then there are some people who felt a little bit like it was trying to co op a lot of the humor from the guardians of the Galaxy. I disagree with that. I think that guardians and Thor Ragnarok have different humor because it's different people writing it. I think Tiger's humor is so specific to take up that while you know, these are two to franchise properties that are based in space, I think there is a difference in tone.

spk_0:   29:01
Yeah, and I think this is the funniest one. I love the character the Taika, and remind me what his name is. That the Taiko core? Yes, he's so funny.

spk_1:   29:12
He's so cool. You so cute. It's hilarious,

spk_0:   29:15
but if there is one performance that's memorable, Kate is great and I love her. But if there is one performance that's really memorable in one character that really sort of stands out. I think it's Val Karey. What are your thoughts on Valkyrie?

spk_1:   29:28
I think Val Khoury is a fantastic character. I love that we have someone who is within the broader queer community, playing economically queer character. That is very true. Valkyrie is kinetically bisexual in the comics.

spk_0:   29:45
Not really in the movie, right?

spk_1:   29:47
Not really in the movie, but in the comment she is. The character is cannot likely bisexual. So it's like, Yeah, we're character being played by Queer Person in Fucking Awesome Love it, I'm hoping and love and thunder. I hope that they do get toe, be a little bit more open with her, her clearness and getting to expose that. Tessa has said at San Diego Comic Con last year that now that spoiler alert Valkyrie is now the king of Asgard. She is now looking for her queen, so I don't know if that was just a little like we nudge nudge or they will actually have some type of story line in love and thunder where she is, you know, dating or on the proud dating other women. I I would be very happy.

spk_0:   30:34
What did you think of her Chemistry was Chris Hemsworth.

spk_1:   30:37
I think it works. Like I think a lot of people thought it was sexual chemistry. I didn't get that from them at all.

spk_0:   30:45
Me neither.

spk_1:   30:46
I did not get that energy at all. I kind of gave. They just gave me, like, bro energy like, Oh, you're both go looking people. And who are just out here being, you know, you know, very, extremely powerful folks. I don't think Tessa and Chris had never have romantic energy. I also don't think they have romantic chemistry And minute black either. Be honest.

spk_0:   31:08
I didn't see that. So I can't comment.

spk_1:   31:11
Yeah, like, minimal act like men in black. Uh,

spk_0:   31:15
where they lovers in that?

spk_1:   31:17
No. But they tried to look a little Not at the end that they were, like, flirty with each other. And I was like, This is not working out. Y'all was. It didn't work out for me. Yeah,

spk_0:   31:26
I agree with you in So Ragnarok, they are more bro's like their drink buddies or something like that, you know? Or I think the main buddy story here is soaring Hawk. And you know, I I love Mark Ruffalo. He's under my favorite actors and I kind of love that. I thought, maybe because Mark Ruffalo is one of those people are so magnetic on screen, just like Kate and I thought that maybe Chris Hemsworth is who he's gorgeous, but I don't think he's as magnetic on screen as Mark Ruffalo. But I think together he elevated Chris Hemsworth Spurs Forman's, and I thought it popped in this film more than it usually does.

spk_1:   32:07
Yeah, I would say, You know, Christopher, what is very interesting in terms of the Chris is because I don't think I would say out of what is deemed like the three Holy 34 whole eternities of Chris's, I think probably Hemsworth, maybe the weakest actor.

spk_0:   32:23
So who are these three? Tell us

spk_1:   32:25
it should be like five, in my opinion, So it should be. In the Marvel cinematic universe, it's Chris Evans. Chris hymns were Chris Pratt. Chris Evans plays Captain America. Christopher obviously, Please Thor, Chris Black plays Star Lord a cake. Peter Coyle and Guardians of the Galaxy should be five courses because you also have to include Chris Pine and my favorite Chris, Chris Messina. so I love love, Messina. So fellow Messina fan love it. But for the sake of this conversation, the three Chris's air, the ones within the emcee you I think he's the weakest actor of the three. If you ask me, Um, and I will say, like his films outside four. Don't really aren't really engaging to me toe at all ever. I think his best acting role outside of four, in my opinion, is bad times at the Arroyo. Have you seen that film?

spk_0:   33:18
I have. Yeah, he's all right. But again, you know, you don't leave with him as the member. The memorable performance, but

spk_1:   33:26
like he does, he doesn't do a surprisingly good job is a leader. I don't know how well describe it, but like I thought, that was a pleasant turn for him. We'll see how he does in the future, like Post Thor, because he is not gonna be paying for forever. I think his time in that role has an expiration date, just like Robert Downey Jr did and Chris Evans did.

spk_0:   33:47
Yeah, Chris hamsters always tries to be funny like he was in Ghostbusters. He was another movie that we were trying to be funny. And this always reminds me of that Billy Eichner joke about Kate. Actually, he had a joke where he would run around and ask people about Cate Blanchett. And he'll be like, Is she good? Or is she toll? And my question is, have actress hens or is is that is he funny? Or is he just hot? Because people are always trying to tell me Oh, he's so funny and like No, maybe he's just high. You like looking at him?

spk_1:   34:19
So I actually do think that he has very good comedian timing. I will say that I do think people are pleasantly surprised by his comedic timing because it's hot.

spk_0:   34:30
Yeah, yes, May Maybe that that's what it is. Yes,

spk_1:   34:35
yes. So you're like, you're so good looking and you're funny, too. Like, how did you trick No strike gold with this, But no, he act. I do think that funny enough. I do think that he has really great comedic timing. I think comedy is actually his strong suit. Like if he wanted to comedy strictly in the comedy genre after playing Thor and he hold, you know, he hangs up his hammer. I think he do really well in it. He's actually talented in in in a communiqu space. Weirdly enough.

spk_0:   35:04
Yeah, so I guess maybe he just needs the right script in the right director Who can hone those funny chops?

spk_1:   35:10
Yeah, and I think Taeko is one that I think really realized that because I think Ghostbusters He's really good, Am I be, though I you know, I was very lukewarm on the film. I still think he's funny in the film, but, like, you know, films like Thor Ragnarok, you get this. People are. People walked out of that film saying a lot of great things about a lot of different people. But there are a lot of people do walk out of that film related. Chris Timber is funny.

spk_0:   35:34
Yeah, he always gets that. It's always a surprise to people, even though he has made a few comedies now. So

spk_1:   35:41
but it's not his comedy that nobody really saw like that. Like not a lot like like seeing people a four film on a global scale, like people walked out. Even I walked out. I was like Shit, he's funny, huh?

spk_0:   35:58
You are listening to Sunday's escaped the podcast series about the films of Cate Blanchett. Don't miss the three part miniseries about her Oscar winning performance in Blue Jasmine. Three episodes, three guests, Three Perspectives in Part one. We discuss Cate Blanchett as a real oh tour of Jasmine and the many ways her performance makes her the author of the film in part two way talk about the similarities to Tennessee Williams, a street car named Desire character of Blanche Dubois. Clearly the blueprint for Jasmine, the many actresses who played Blanche, or where inspired by her from the women in Pedro Almodovar's movies to Jenna Rowlands in Woman Under the Influence to most recently Carrie Mulligan in Wildlife. And in the third and Final Part, we discuss Jasmine and her sisters, Anne Whole Helen Sinclair in Bullets Over Broadway, Maria Elena in Vicky, Cristina Barcelona and Cecilia in the Purple Rose of Cairo, among others. All these episodes are now available wherever you listen to podcasts or at Sunday's with skate dot com. If you're enjoying the podcast, please rate and review. Now back to Sunday's escaped, so I talked earlier. If we go back talking back a Blanchard, I talked earlier a little bit about how Kate always plays villains in these big studio movie. So she has played villains not just in Thor Ragnarok but in Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and in Cinderella and these air sort of three different villains. But in all these movies, she leans into the camp a lot like you see in these movies she has a certain look, whether it is the smoky eyes here or the severe black Bob in Indiana Jones or the red hair and the Joan Crawford shoulders in Cinderella. So it's a collaboration between her and the makeup artist and the costume designer to come up with these characters. And then she leans into it, also with the body movement. So in Indiana Jones, her body was sort of very chopped movements. It was somebody who was very severe, and the accent was also very severe and chopped. Here she has. I think it's a British accent, but the movement is fluid but also very noticeable. I'm like in trapped by, you know, when I see her trying to create these characters. And so I wanted to ask you, which of these do you think is your favorite Or which one do you think was the most successful as a villain?

spk_1:   38:48
Mmm. That's a good question. Damn, I don't know. I'm gonna say for the for the sake of the conversations is we've been talking about it a lot, and I would have to re watch the other two has been a while. Hello. I think when it comes to the campiness, I think what Kate does well is we've been saying this, you know, consistently through this episode, she just leans into the role, like is not just her saying the lines, the way her body contorts to make these movements, the accents that she does her walk or stride like she does all of that to help assist, obviously, like the great hair and makeup and look great. You know, the great hair and makeup team for Indiana Jones and Cinderella and, of course, for for the war. But she leans into the rules. So I what I loved about hell awas Kate, being of a certain age, getting to play that type of character is a big deal, right? Because she is an older woman. And to be able to have that opportunity to play ball and play a villain who is fully invested in in in her sensuality and her movements in her blood thirsty nous. I think that's probably why, like that role, the best?

spk_0:   40:02
Yeah, And it was also like she's very fun in Cinderella label saying Cinderella, She's the step mom. She's already defined by her relationship to Cinderella toe to her daughters, and here she is, sort of not defined by any relationship to any other character. She is just the ultimate bad villain and the most powerful, supposedly most powerful person in this universe.

spk_1:   40:28
Yeah, absolutely.

spk_0:   40:30
I do think that you know, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, and we did an episode of that. So go listen to that one. It doesn't have a good reputation as a movie full don't like that movie. But I think her performance there is really great, and it's sort of building on a lot of inspirations. Campy inspirations from lot linear to other villains throughout the years. And I think here what I like about her is hella is that this to me. Seems she didn't actually draw on other movie characters or was inspired by other actors in the history of cinema. But she was more inspired by the comic book, obviously, because this is a comic book movie. And so her work here is interesting to me because it is, I think, unlike other things she has done because sometimes you can see the references in her work. And here it is a unique character that she did it.

spk_1:   41:25
Yeah, and you know, like we talk a little bit about that. But like, you know, the beauty of the emcee you is that you get these prestige actors willing toe wear, ridiculous costumes and just have fun for a couple of days. You know what I mean? Like act and act a fool for a month. Essentially. And you know, Kay is a very award winning actress like multiple award winning actress to get her level of just talent on the screen to play a character that is a comic book character and get her in those horns and get her in those horns to see G I but like, get her in those horns like get her in the skin tight suit with shoulders out, get her to do all these ridiculous things and play in like Tyco's world, that's actually like, very impressive. And that's like shows a lot about how she is someone who is very focused on the range and breath of her work.

spk_0:   42:23
And she did. I read an interview is her which was very funny about why she took this role. And she said that, you know, she's usually asked to carry the emotional weight of films, and this time she just wanted to have fun with steak. And I guess that's a great way why she took this role because, like if she does like Blue Jasmine or Carol or truth, or all these other movies where she is doing so much emotionally, this or she's playing Blanche Dubois in state. This time she's just having fun. And I guess it was a fun experience for her to work with steak. And I do hope maybe if she doesn't come back to the next door, that's fine. But maybe she and take it can do something else in the future.

spk_1:   43:00
I hope so, too, Like it seemed like she just had a ball and, like, you know what, You know when you're when you're a queen of acting and You just wanna take a break and just have a little fun. I'm so for it. Let go. Have fun.

spk_0:   43:12
Yeah, Absolutely. And it is at fun performance on Dhe. The movie is a lot of fun. And I think what we talked about sort of proved that it's come to my attention that you don't know who I am. I am Hella Oden's first born commander of the legions of Asgard, the rightful heir to the throne and the goddess of death. My father is dead as all the princess. You're welcome. We were once the seat of absolute power in the cosmos. House supremacy was unchallenged, yet owed and stopped. Nine. Rome's. Our destiny is to rule over all others. And I am here to restore that power. Kneel before me and rise into the ranks of my great conquest. Whoever you are, whatever you've done, surrender. Now we will show you no mercy.

spk_1:   44:20
Whoever I am. Did you listen to a word I

spk_0:   44:24
said? This is your last warning. I thought you'd be happy to see me.

spk_1:   44:33
I just want to say thoroughbred knock is a fantastic film. The best out of the torture. Neurology. Whereabouts going to 1/4 or film for Love and Thunder. I don't think I don't remember where they have it on the slate currently for, for when it's coming out, but I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to now Oscar winning Tiger. What you need to get back into the driver, see, like, you know, really lean into this world that he's crafted. And, yeah, I'm excited.

spk_0:   44:58
Let's do it. Let's go back a little bit to the favorite crisis. So we talked about Hemsworth Spine Evans and we both agreed that our favorite is Messina, Correct? So tell me like Chris Messina, Where did where have you? I liked him. And where have you loved him? Because I don't you know. My problem is Chris Messina is always I think he's the best, Chris. But I can actually pinpoint one performance of one movie. Maybe the Mindy Kaling show is where he was at his best. What is it for you?

spk_1:   45:30
Yeah, The first thing that really introduced Chris Messina was the was Mindy Project. That's the first time I ever watched him. And I was like this very gruff dude who could dance very well and like has great again. Great comedic timing is very good looking. And then I realized that, like I've seen a lot of stuff that Chris Messina is in, I just didn't know it was Chris Messina, right? You got Julie and Julia or you have like, yeah, you know, like or there's this other film that was called like The Tin Man or some like that, that he was in with Jenna Fischer, which I really enjoy, or 28 hotel rooms, which was this like very indie film that he did fantastic in. Obviously, he's in birds of Prey, playing Victor's as and like he's fantastic in that, too, and he fully leans and like this crazy character. So, yeah, like, I just I just think he is again, a character that has shown a lot of range. I think he is a character who has a lot of talent, and I think he often has forgotten because he's immersed himself in a lot of different rules and, you know, oftentimes like films that you've seen that you've liked nine times out of 10 Christmas Eve, isn't it low key?

spk_0:   46:37
Yes, I believe that a lot of movies I was just looking at, you know, he was in sharp objects and he was so good. Yeah. Amy Adams in that which, you know, like you said he was in Julie and Julia with fur.

spk_1:   46:47
And also he's in this new season. What is it called? The sinner on U. S. A. He's on that. And, yeah, he's always working. He's never not working.

spk_0:   46:57
So Chris Messina, our love to you, Your favorite, Chris. Absolutely. I usually ask all my guests on the podcast about Cate Blanchett. And so do you remember with the first time that you saw Kate in a movie?

spk_1:   47:12
Yeah, my first time I saw Okay in the movie, I'm definitely aging myself because I am a baby. I'm only 28. So a lot of her well known films like The Talented Mr Ripley You know, Elizabeth I was under 10 years old, so I did not see those films. But the first time I actually saw Kate on screen, I was just like, Who is? That is the Aviator 2000 four's The Aviator of the Howard Hughes biopic, directed by Martin Scorsese. And she plays Katherine Hepburn and she would talk about Camp Master class

spk_0:   47:45
was great in that film.

spk_1:   47:47
Fantastic. And I remember walking out of there being like you. Who is that? Like, who is that woman really killing it? Uh, obviously, you know, we know Carol. Obviously she's been, you know, Lord of the Rings she's been and all these other different franchises. But that's the That's the film. I think when I think about like the talent of Cate Blanchett, it's It's her as Katharine Hepburn in The Aviator.

spk_0:   48:10
Yeah, it's a great performance, and she won the Oscar for it. So absolutely. What is your favorite performance of Cates?

spk_1:   48:17
Kansas? I don't want to like cheap like hurt roller. Katharine Hepburn is really good guy. She's Oh,

spk_0:   48:24
that's a good choice. It's It's It's It's a good

spk_1:   48:26
choice. She want to ask her for a reason. Also, her role in Carol Fantastic also. But yeah, Catherine help. You know what? Like in preparation for this, this might be like distance bias, because in preparation for the podcast, I would just re watch clips on YouTube of her role as Katherine Hepburn, an aviator, and I was just like, Wow, this is still as dynamic as it was when I remember seeing it. And so, yeah, I'm gonna in my because I just watched the clips. But I'm going to say her role and Katharine Hepburn in The Aviator.

spk_0:   48:58
And you know what I love About The Aviator is one of my guests. In the previous episode about Blue Jasmine, Matthew Eng said that what he likes about Kate is that she's someone who is not a afraid of being caught acting. And in that movie, Katharine Hepburn is an icon. You can't not do the things that we are very familiar with gas and heparin doing. And she that to me, is such a daunting task because she is exaggerating what Katherine Hepburn is doing. And at the same time she's playing. It can't be. She's playing, it bakes. She's doing the voice, she's doing the work, she's doing everything. And this is where some people are turned up because this is not subtle work. It's in your face acting, and it's what I love about her performances. Which hell up?

spk_1:   49:49
Yeah, Matt. But Matt, a spot on right, like I think what's so dynamic about her role as Katherine in The Aviator is like you get full every what you expect imitator to do of Katharine Hepburn. Kate like, leans into it right like she fully leans into the voice and when she first has the conversation with how refused and they're on the links and she was like, You know, you know something about like, Hollywood young boy and she does the Ha ha like she does all of these like weird moments and you're just like, Oh, you're fully leaning into it. But as you're peeling back the layers throughout the film, as their relationship starts to crumble, right and she starts becoming, you know, the hair starts becoming a little bit more dimmer and her makeup starts becoming a little bit more natural. It's no more of the red lip like she starts really not acting while still playing strips and distant pieces of who Katherine Hepburn is. So she does like a deconstructing of her throughout the film. It's a marvel tow watch. Never seen The Aviator. Please watch it.

spk_0:   50:49
Yeah, it's such a great performance. I agree with you that, you know, later on she starts showing you the person instead of the icon. Uh, exactly. It's It's so beautiful. So let me ask you who is your favorite? Kate. Blemish it. Scene partner

spk_1:   51:05
O K. Black has seen partner. Damn, that's hard. Like

spk_0:   51:14
she made so many.

spk_1:   51:19
Hmm. That's hard, because again, Chief. Okay, I'm gonna give her i'ma say, Rooney. Mara. Carol, I think her I think that is such a beautiful movie. I think that again Rooney and Kate do a fantastic job. But, you know, I'm always down for I'm always down for, like, nontraditional love stories. Because love stories are so are are extremely cliche and very tiring. But I just think that their relationship worked so well together. And so I'm gonna cheat and save our miss. A Brie, Mera

spk_0:   51:54
Rooney Mara is a great answer, and it is the most common answer. But that's because they are fantastic together.

spk_1:   52:02
Yes, yes. So I don't feel bad about Mike. Alicia Answer. Yes, Rudy. Era in her and Carol is fantastic again. And another thing that I enjoy is that, like Kate, as she's gotten older is another thing again. She's a leaner like she leans in as an actress, right? But she I think she and her recent roles really leans in to her age and her being the older woman, and I love that she doesn't shy from it. She doesn't try to mask it. She picks roles that are again beyond range, but really lean into those age differences with some of her scene partners really leads to the fact that she's an older villain and, like a four. And you know she's gonna be in this, uh, this new show, Miss America On Who? Lulu coming up soon and you know she's paying an oldest Oh, my God, life one

spk_0:   52:57
of the most vile people ever

spk_1:   53:01
So much and I have been looking for I know she's gonna make me mad because she's good at her job, so I know she's gonna kick ass in the role. But again, like, I just I love I love that. That difference in her being a seasoned woman in, In in Carroll. I appreciate that with her relationship with Rooney Mirror in the in the film, So I miss Avery

spk_0:   53:21
Mera, and so who would you like to see her work with?

spk_1:   53:25
Who hasn't she worked with, I think is a better question. I mean, she's been her. She didn't work it for a long as

spk_0:   53:29
she has worked with a lot of people. It could be a repeat. Maybe somebody already

spk_1:   53:33
like How about though, this randomly out there? I think the reeds would do a great job directing Rooney Mayor directing Kate Blanchett I wouldn't call

spk_0:   53:46
me that.

spk_1:   53:47
I would love a drama directed by Deary's with Cate Blanchett in it.

spk_0:   53:53
Yes, let's decrease if you're listening. Do that, please. For us.

spk_1:   53:57
Yeah, the evil I say that is that, like the reason it's a fantastic job in Mud Bound. And I think of a similar actress in terms of who leans into their roles Carrie Mulligan in that movie. So I think that is up case Will house do you re a deed read Directed film with Cate Blanchett I'm in it.

spk_0:   54:14
Yeah, I'm into it. I want to see it, Joy that this was a joy to talk to you about four. And about Kate, Thank you so much for doing it. And, oh, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you and your work and you have a podcast that you just launch. So

spk_1:   54:29
I have that too. Yeah. So you guys could follow me on Twitter and Instagram and jump for joy J u M p E D F O R J o i with an I. I really tweet about films usually bothering people in Murtada and talking about broader film Twitter shenanigans. That's what we do on there. I also did start a podcast called The Color Grade. The color grade is looking at films from a diverse lens. Obviously, I am the host. So it's coming from Isis had black women perspective. But I have wonderful guests, like folks like Kate be folks like Trade Mango, who's steppin editor shadowing at and We Come and we play. We've done like our beta test of a few episodes. I think we're at, like a big released, like nine or 10 at this point, as you guys were listening. Currently on Apple and Spotify, all centering around Filled was that premiered at Sundance. So yeah, please listen definitely listen to this podcast as well. It is a fantastic podcast. I love that it's so specific and nuance to Cate Blanchett. And honestly, you can have this podcast running for a 1,000,000,000 years because she's been in that much stuff immediately.

spk_0:   55:46
Listen to the color grade. Thank you joy. You can find me on Twitter at m E, Underscore says and follows a podcast on Twitter and Instagram round at Sunday's shave until next time thank you.