Cate Blanchett in "Blue Jasmine" Jasmine and Her Sisters

In the 3rd and final part of the Blue Jasmine miniseries, we discuss Jasmine and her sisters. Annie Hall, Helen St Clair in Bullets Over Broadway, Maria Elena in Vicky Cristina Barcelona and Cecilia in The Purple Rose of Cairo, among others. Hosted by Murtada Elfadl with returning guest journalist and theater critic Jose Solís, of Token Theater Friends podcast.

Transcript

spk_0:   0:00
What do you do on Sundays? Way talked about Cate

spk_1:   0:03
Blanchett. The act, the costumes, the awards, but mostly Blanchard of it all.

spk_0:   0:14
I'm not acting. Thing is a Erica.

spk_1:   0:21
This is Sunday's escaped and I'm your host for Todd. Welcome to Sundays with Skate, the podcast series about the films of Cate Blanchett. Today we are talking once again about Blue Jasmine in our miniseries about Cates. Best performance is definitely the most loaded performance. My guest today is our first returning guests to the Sundays Escape podcast Jose Seles. Hello, Jose. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming back. It's so exciting to have a returning guest. You were a great guest on our talented in the certainly pop gas. And that's why you're our first returning you and I actually saw Blue Desmond together for the first time. Do you remember that? Yeah. Way after, you know, we had to celebrate with, um, Stoli Martini was a twist of Lemon

spk_0:   1:18
and wade have, like, no controls way

spk_1:   1:23
Had a few, that's for sure. What we're going to talk about today is blue Jasmine. But we're also gonna talk about the Woody Allen women Blue Jasmine belongs into this tradition of Woody Allen women. Lots of other movies, from Annie Hole, two Bullets Over Broadway to another woman to Vicky Cristina Barcelona. But before we get into all that, tell me what you think about Blue Jasmine.

spk_0:   1:48
Oh wow. I mean, we saw it together that time, like we sound it like I don't even know like teenagers Event to Spencer, Virginia. We were so excited like it was like a second coming anyway, because I feel that up to then meet most of the two thousands have been very hit and miss for Woody. And, you know, although I love Woody Allen's or Kiss its record a writer but both of his movies from the train for Century pre, you know, laying there like if you look amazing like they feel like, you know, like he was about to quit like he was done. And then he had this, like come back with Midnight in Paris and then with Blue Jasmine that I don't It made me feel, I think, like probably all those people in the seventies when I got to see any hall in Manhattan because it was like the Woody Renaissance and I mean, I'm not gonna get into the whole, you know, because we're gonna talk about that. Yes. Yeah. So, yeah. So, like what I'm saying, You know, I'm just talking about his work, and I'm not thank you right now as a rational person about, you know, his personal life. And

spk_1:   3:04
I mean, what we can say about that is that we can agree that Woody Allen there are a lot of signs that he is a terrible person and that he may have heard a lot of women. And we are here to talk about his movies, his movies, no matter what you think of him. And I think I don't think greatly of him, but I think it's moving. They're very influential. And if you look at sort of his over from the seventies, which and from the eighties, which are some of the moves we're going to talk about today, they're very influential. And so many other filmmakers that we now know in love would not have given us what they've given us if they didn't see Woody Allen movies when they

spk_0:   3:39
were growing up. He also had that eye for forgetting Marilyn Manhattan, for instance, and forgetting all this like actors to do like this tiny bits that in many ways become, I would say, like as important in their in their tomography and think, you know, I think Marilyn Manhattan is better than Marilyn Sophie's choice. But this is not Merrill pockets.

spk_1:   4:04
Oh, you could talk about Meryl. We love her, but let's talk about Let's start with Kate in Blue Jasmine. So yes, this blue jasmine is such a performance. Different movie. And I remember, you know, when I first saw it for the first time, like my Joel was on the floor of the whole time, I couldn't believe this this actor that I have loved for so many years, and I knew that she is great. I could not believe how amazing she waas in this movie and getting to give this very emotional performance, but also at the same time, a performance that is so dominant. I mean, Kate is always dominant in movies. She is a very dominant actor, but this she is. But in this one, she just takes the reins of the movie and runs with it, and it's frankly, a joy to behold and, you know I go back in force what is my favorite performance of hers. But whenever I watch this movie, there is just no other answer. When

spk_0:   4:56
Blue Jasmine premiere, you had already seen her a splash, right?

spk_1:   5:00
I have seen her Is Blanche on stage? I don't

spk_0:   5:02
think I've ever asked you how. How seeing her do Blanche on stage and obviously just as minutes like a version of Blanche, I don't think I've ever asked you how to compare.

spk_1:   5:12
The difference is what I loved about the live Oldman production Is that because of Marlon Brando's force of performance, streetcars would have remembered as a Stanley playing. And what Liv and Kate did in that production is they made it a blanche play again. So she is the dominant. So the dominant character in that play, not that the performance is is dominant as it waas in blue Jasmine. She is more vulnerable and broken as Blanche because that was Blanche is what while she's more brittle as Jasmine you? Yes, Jasmine is going through a crisis, but at the same time she is somebody who has a lot of pride. She's somebody who has sharp edges. She's somebody who is complete, definitely not likable or sympathetic. And I think to me that was the main difference between what she did as blacks and what she did. Is Jasmine

spk_0:   6:08
That's so interesting is like she I mean, for all that the technical wonders of this performance in Blue Jasmine I I think that it's Cates probably like most vulnerable performance because even, you know, even like in movies like Little Fish, which is very raw emotionally, she's always like, very contained. I feel like she's always in control and Jasmine. I think it's the one time where I've seen her the most, looked like she was about to lose control and that she was about to not know what to do.

spk_1:   6:40
When did you wily when you watched Jasmine the 1st 9 When was when was the first time you felt that this This is a great performance? This is something I'm gonna like.

spk_0:   6:51
Big boys. No, that's like halfway through the movie. I I think from the moment she opens her mouth and it's just like, very like, affected accent like, kind of like Katharine Hepburn needs. I don't know Michael's home bird e like this, like New York socialites. And from the moment she opens her mouth like it was like, I noticed something that you've always told me when you're talking about the impeccable Kate and it's like her voice is like some interesting and and jasmine I don't know, like the moment she opened her mouth, I was like, Holy book,

spk_1:   7:31
Yeah, I mean, it's it's She's an actor who uses her voice so well all the time. And, you know, here it's It's rich was emotion, but it's broken. And also the accent is perfect. It's a specific Upper East Side New York accent that you don't hear everywhere in New York City, but you definitely hear it in the hallways and apartments and, um, opera houses. The jasmine frequents and she gets it so right as usual, of course she knows it. She's Cate Blanchett. I knew it from the beginning, like from because she's introduced blabbering on that plane and she's just talking. And I'm like, if this movie is gonna continue being like that cause that scene, there is another actor in the scene, but they're completely like you don't remember anything about them except that Kate is talking that and I'm like, if if this is gonna continue being like this, I'm gonna love this movie because it's gonna be an old Kate movie. And it is an old movie bartender. Yeah, so this sort of leads me to ask you about what my questions is about the other actors in this movie. Kate, you know, we will talk more about her, but she's such a hurricane in this film, a good hurricane hurricane of emotion that sweeps us. But do you Do you feel that the other actors were swept by her or where you Where did you like some of the other

spk_0:   8:53
performances? I like everyone in this, and I think that one of the things that they do so well on it's something that happens very often in Woody Allen movies. And it's that when the actress know that there's no that this woman can commend the wind, too. They moved and they let her command the wind, but they don't like vanish like they give, like very, very, very good performances. Like I mean, I think that Sally Hawkins says danger was the Stella two Kates Blanche just a very good job. She's like she's so adorable and there's like, very like you way like I almost want to slap her. She's so I know full of love and kindness. And then we see her dark edge, and I think that everyone, every character in this movie has that because who was the guy who plays Ginger? Since Husband I was

spk_1:   9:47
under Dice Clay,

spk_0:   9:49
that scene where he becomes like the catalyst that he's the one who destroys? Basically, you know it's karma, right? Is that she Jasmine's husband Hard? JJ, I don't know. I waited.

spk_1:   10:06
Just call him. I like Baldwin

spk_0:   10:09
hard, does something terrible. Thio, his sister lied to her husband and Andrew Dice Clay in that one moment near the end of the movie is just incredible. And Bobby Cannavale, I feel, was trying to play. You know Stanley?

spk_1:   10:23
He Waas for sure. Yes, in the summer when your

spk_0:   10:29
sister had all that money, she wanted nothing to do with Joe. Now that she's broke over, son, she's moving in. She's not just broke. She's all screwed up. You'll be very happy to know that I lost every cent of my own money. Your

spk_1:   10:39
husband was a slick

spk_0:   10:40
operator. I was there a week I knew the guy was hitting on a girlfriend. I can't I can't. You choose losers because that's what you think you deserve, and that's why you'll never have a better life.

spk_1:   10:50
I really like Sally. I think Sally does stand away from the hurricane of gaining a lot of scenes that she gives an actually submissive work because she's trying to stand away from her. But at the same time, when you look at her at Sally looking at Kate, that's where the two performances gel for me. Because she is both amazed and horrified and in all and hates her sister and loves her and all of that sort of registers in her face. I'm not sort of a fan of her scenes with Louis C. K or all of those scenes that are sort of like they try to make, you know, I'm just like, get me back to Kate, get me back to Jasmine. But But I like their scenes together.

spk_0:   11:35
I think that we think here will be your stars guard because I don't know. I mean, he's a fantastic actor, but I never understood what someone like Jasmine would see in him. He's so boring.

spk_1:   11:47
Yeah, I think she just saw his checkbook on his house. Yeah, Security. Yeah, I think you know what he's famous for not giving his actors the full script. So and it's well known in that he only gave Kate and Sally the full script. So maybe Peter Sarsgaard just got his slides and didn't know what was happening. Because if you just get those scenes, you don't get any of the tragedy of Jasmine or anything that's happening in the movie. Gets his scenes are on Lee with her, and it's sort of this love story slash web of lies that she puts around him and I agree with you. His performance does not pop, that's for sure. What's the name of the kid? Well, the older one is Solo, which is old, and Aaron

spk_0:   12:47
Rich. Yeah. Remember when when we saw the movie? While like, seven years ago, Time does fly. And like I mentioned to you how much I often looked like remember, Yeah, files. And I love about Jasmine, and I don't remember seeing many writers and many critics talk about it. But I adjustment is to me at the you know, like in the modern Alan era, the CAC It that most becomes like the Woody Allen circuit because as he's getting older and as he's getting, I guess, more bitter lonelier. He has that, you know, like melancholy. And that is not resentment. It's more like a regret, I would say. And just from the opening scene in the plane, where she just like, blabber And that's, you know, the classic, Woody. A classic character. Yeah, this by the end, you know, there's always, like all of the recent Woody Allen movies have this element of, like sadness and loss and regret. And in that scene, when Kate goes to see her, she was He was first lesson, right?

spk_1:   13:59
He was her stepson.

spk_0:   14:00
Yeah, and he goes to two. She goes to talk to him, and he just freaking Looks like Ronan Farrow so much I found that seem so moving, and I wonder what Kate is. Obviously, Kate didn't talk because people interrogated her about, you know, the Woody scandal. Remember? Um, she didn't talk about it. She doesn't know. Yeah, but I wonder what playing that scene. It was like for her. And if she saw that, you know, it's apparent trying to make amends, but

spk_1:   14:28
with the son who doesn't want them anymore. Yeah, yeah, they definitely wrong and hurt deeply. I like that. I like your institution. I wanted to ask you also like, I love so many things about Kate as Jasmine. I love all the silences in the performance, like when she's about to lie. There's always sort of a little bit of like She's as if she's gathering the lie, trying to make it, which is sort of like a classic thing of liars. They always pause before they lie. And so I love that about it. That's one of the things I really love about the performance. And I wanted to ask you, What are some of the gestures or ticks that you love about Kate? It's Jasmine.

spk_0:   15:22
Cate Blanchett is one of the most glamorous in one of the most photographed women in the world, and she, you know, you say it all the time. She posts us like it's nobody's business, right, Like she invented posing. And in Jasmine she looks ugly, and she lets herself look ugly and, you know, not ugly in a shallow like you. No, she's not pretty, right But she allows the characters monstrosity to come through in her face. And you know that tip big boys. Yeah, She you were telling me that she was praising Joker? Uh, the Golden Gloves? Yes. Yeah, that scene was better. Joker, you know, with that, make it. I remember like her face looks like it's melting, you know their eyes. She almost looks like a Picasso painting. Events like I don't know how her eyes are were her cheeks, you know, are supposed to be like her mouth. I don't know, It's it's magical. So I love what she does with her face is I think it's the most expressive in an almost over the top way that she's She's everything.

spk_1:   16:39
Yeah, and it is a collaboration with the makeup artists and the costume designer. I think more than it's always a collaboration was those departments for Kate in her performances, because she right relies a lot on costumes and makeup and hair to create these characters. You know, like in manifesto when she did Cinderella, you know, she always does these heightened characters, but I think this time she uses that collaboration was the makeup artist and the costume designer to chart the emotional pesos of this woman in that scene you're talking about, you see her face melting, and that is her as an actor but also the makeup designer, adding the sweat, you know, the hair designer making her hair looks strange. E. And it's not in just that scene. It's in all the scenes when she, especially when she starts breaking down or in the scenes where she is drunk. You're always aware of like how drunk she is, by the way she looks or you know how high she is on Xanax or whatever it is just taking. Yeah, one of the scenes I really like is at the beginning in the flashbacks where they're just telling telling us about her life in New York before, before you know how was discovered. That's Alec Baldwin before he was discovered, and you sort of that's where we talked a little bit about how she was lying to Peter Sarsgaard later in the film. But in those scenes she's lying to herself, and that's where you see her just sort of being serene. Outwardly, she's serene, but you can see in her eyes the fear and the lies because she she knew what her husband was up to and that he was up to no good and stealing money. And she knew all of that. And in those scenes, you see it in her face that she knows and those scenes are with her friends and you know, so called friends and and you can tell that she knows. And she's lying to herself more than anybody else. And I love the scenes are not, like, very memorable. They're not one of the scenes that have a lot of the memorable catchphrases, but they are scenes that just build the character, and that's why I love her work there.

spk_0:   18:48
They're also like scenes where the movie talked about class, which, like American cinema, doesn't look like there's a class in America. Everyone, well, yeah, and I love that, you know, in a way, tire like sets. It acts like as the prequel, almost to the horrors of the current administration and how all this, like beautifully dressed, high society women, are backing up their asshole criminal husbands and just shutting up about it like I wonder how many blue jasmine that are.

spk_1:   19:22
I mean, Jasmine is famously based on Bruce made off. Who was one of the biggest liars to themselves of that era. Yes, and there are a lot of complicity women and men in in stories like this. One of the things that I also love is that the performance and the movie charts the effects of an economic crisis on a person. So this is a woman who is rich and had everything at her disposal, and you can see when she gets to San Francisco. She has, like, the few things that she kept the Hermes bag and the dress that she really loves and the the shoes that she loves, and she keeps repeating them. And so again, it was a costume designer. They worked on that, and that's something that I love to sort of notice. And the other thing is just in the performance itself. She is always not to your point about class. She's always not in the scene with people that she doesn't like them. I don't think she likes anyone, and it's very hard for an actor because actors and, you know, I asked Kate once at a Q and A for Carol about why she was so perfect in that movie. In her answer to me was that it was in the gaze at Rooney, and that's why they were able to act off of each other because they were looking into each other's eyes. But here she looks at nobody's eyes. Jasmine is always in her hat. And so I was just, you know, I wish now I could ask h How did she manage to be so formidable when she never looks into any of the other actors? Eyes

spk_0:   21:02
just like that? Just like that, I realized for the first time that the movie literally starts with her in the skies and it ends with her sitting park like it's just, you know, the entire movie. Is that train

spk_1:   21:23
okay? I love Blue Jasmine. I think it's an amazing, fantastic movie. But also a large part of that is because of this fantastic performance. Yes, Hal and Hard JJ, are there any other? Joey's has husbands. I don't know. I get off the top of my head right now. Remember, her has been today. You know, we watched this movie together, remember? We saw it several times. We saw this movie opening night at the Angelika, which was a lot of fun. We went after had Stoli martinis, and then a week later we went back. Remember that?

spk_0:   22:11
Yes, because we had to stop drinking way have been striking for a week, and we're like, Okay, we're coming down from the booth. Take it. The thing

spk_1:   22:23
that made his return a week later, the next Friday after it opened is because this movie is so watchable. It is about a woman in crisis. It's not a happy ending. Jasmine is not sympathetic, if not somebody you want to spend time with. Because if this is something this was someone in real life, you would want to look away just like that woman sitting next to her, the bench at the end of the movie, because there is nothing you can do to help her, so you want to look away. But yet somehow this movie is very watchable. You know when it's it's on Netflix now. I have watched it several times. I sometimes just put it on because I just want to see the performance. Why do you think it's a watchable?

spk_0:   23:03
It's obviously because of Kate, but also you. The script is one of Woody's finest ever. You know, he does this thing where he you know, he works on his references on his sleep, right? You can't hide him and everyone knows is a streetcar. He doesn't try to hide it. Uh, he doesn't pretend that he's reinventing Streetcar, but because he adores the structure so much, he allows himself deliberated. Play and get this captures dialogues. I mean, tip big boys like it was like watching that movie like with, like, the five minutes after we at the Angelica. Yeah, and I think it's one of the most quotable movies off the decade. Probably and definitely one of the most credible movies and Woody's career. Yeah, you know everything from her drink order to the

spk_1:   23:50
Stoli Martini with a twist of lemon.

spk_0:   23:52
What's the thing with her? With the dentist? He's trying Africa. It's one of those cute woody things that were just trying Thio.

spk_1:   24:01
Okay, there is some retro language. Well, yes, One of the plots is that she is trying to learn computers, which is one of them was unbelievable things ever. Obviously I love when she says I saw you, Erica. That scene is a master class because that scene is the thing that we're talking about earlier, right? It's Kate being in a scene with another actor and not looking at them at all, because she is in this whole dimension where she's remembering this story about this woman, Erica. And it's also a great scene for Sally because we get to know the extent of how crazy or off Jasmine is by the horrified look on Sally Hawkins, his face and when she says, I saw you, Erica. But it's also very funny. It's tragic and horrifying, but very funny. And I have said I saw you, Erica two people e. I think if they know me, they

spk_0:   25:00
know I was like When people are always talking about Sally Hawkins and the fish monster from the shape of water, I'm like she already faced the worst monster of them all with

spk_1:   25:11
jasmine friends. Another thing that this I don't say this in real life, but another sort of line that I really love. And this is Amimour, a Jiff that I use a lot, which is what does this stupidity even mean, which is always works like you know, especially when somebody's saying some stupid political thing, and then you can just send them Kate saying Toe How what Does this stupidity even mean Everyone besides the big boys? Do you have any favorites

spk_0:   25:39
with the quotes? God, I don't know. It's like every you know, I think the big boys is my one this week. Probably if you ask me next week, I would choose something out. I always want to do something with my life, no energy, and to shop and lunch and go to matinee days. No van charities report people when you raise money for museums and schools and with wealth comes responsibilities. It wasn't just some mindless consumer like somebody my so called friends. No, I won't say I dislike buying pretty close tip. Big boys tip big because you get good service and they count on tips. You know, someday, when you come into great wealth, you must remember to be generous.

spk_1:   26:28
Another one that I really loved, that it's something that it's such an offhand one. When her friend in San Francisco invites her to the party where she meets Peter Stars guard. You know, she says, I haven't shown my face socially in so long, and that's another one. That's really, really great.

spk_0:   26:45
That's great. I mean, January.

spk_1:   26:48
Well, it's February now. Are you showing your face here? Yeah, here I am. So we love this movie. I personally think it's if not the best performance of the decade that just ended. It's definitely one of the best performances of the decade that just ended. Where do you stand on that? Do Is it in your top performances? And what other performances that they remind

spk_0:   27:15
you off? I mean, are you talking about obviously, I'm thinking Eddie Redmayne kind of e. I have thought about that, you know, about the best performances of the decade. But certainly Kate would be up there. Iss a monumental performance. And it was the kind of thing that she just swallows that movie hole and you know, not it. I'm not a fan at all of her Elizabeth. The Golden Age, I think, is she, but also like, you know, it's not a very good maybe, but it's kind of like the same performance in a way. Like she swallows everything you know. She eats everything like this, like giant Packman kind of creature, but it works so well here and it's because, you know, she could have also just tried to emulate a BB in the in streetcar, right? Or she could have tried to play. You know, she could have tried borrowing elements from performances that had borrowed elements from lunch do block. But she does something completely heroin and completely original, and even people who don't like the movie you know, it's undeniable how powerful he is. So I don't know, probably rounding up, you know, somewhere in my tough guy, but also vacated Carol and I'm that I'm not just pandering to I've got Mario NW in today's

spk_1:   28:44
Yep, that's a fantastic performance from Courtyard. Absolutely agree with that. One thing very own in Reston Bone is also amazing. Yes, I, uh, I also think of Natalie Portman in Black Swan. That's another great one. I mean, if if we look at the Oscar winning performances, it's definitely cape without it out. Well, Natalie one and Jennifer Lawrence and Julianne Moore. There's been some good winners, if not for the performances. I definitely love most of the actresses who won this decade, and, of course, Kate gave a great speech when she won.

spk_0:   29:24
I'm so very proud that Blue Jasmine stayed in the cinemas first, long as it did and to the audiences who went to see it. And perhaps those of us in the industry who was still foolishly clinging to the idea that the female films with women at the center a niche experiences they are not. Audiences want to see them, and in fact, they earn money. So the world around people

spk_1:   29:56
you are listening to. One of three episodes about Blue Jasmine on Sundays escaped three episodes. Three guests, three Perspectives In Part one. We discuss Cate Blanchett as the real oh tour of Blue Jasmine and the many ways her performance makes her the author of the film. In Part two, we talk about the similarities to Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Desire, the character of Blanche Dubois. Clearly the blueprint for Jasmine, many actresses who played Blanche, or where, inspired by her from the women in Pedro Almodovar's movies to Jenna Rowlands in Woman Under the Influence to most recently, Carrie Mulligan in Wildlife. These episodes are now available wherever you listen to podcasts or on Sundays with kate dot com. If you're enjoying the podcast, please rate and review now back to Sunday's escaped. So let's talk a little bit about the tradition of this performance. So Woody Allen has or had a reputation for being a woman's director, which really, when you look at his output, sometimes it's really surprising to me that that was his reputation for a long time, because in his early movies he was so much part of his movies, like his move, he was in them as an actor and he was in them as an actor, as himself. And then when he grew older and he had other people basically play him, and the movies were mostly about that character, the Woody or the Woody stand in. I think his reputation became to that because of an A Hole and a Hole is an amazing film. Beautiful Performance by Dan Keaton. It was a character inspired by Keaton herself, and it's such a beautifully drawn performance from her. But it was so funny, and the way she looked and she dressed. It was iconic and memorable, and people still talk about Annie Hole is one of the best comedies ever. Andi think we have to think any hole for that reputation of out it's

spk_0:   32:07
completely and also, I don't know, thank you should thank her or like Low Parker's. Like also, you know, she was never She's always she became any Hall like, you know, Even then something's gonna get, like other other performances, like she's basically a variation of Annie Hall and Kate for Charlie. Now it's venturing Thio. No, it's I I ke doesn't have that shows they have. You know that stick while I mean, don't bless Annie Hall, and it's a perfect performance. But yeah, you know, even Diane Keaton in the world. Uh,

spk_1:   32:46
and that's, you know, that's the sort of the collaboration, right? So when when we talk sometimes like one in the previous episode of this we talked about the actor is the old tour, and we thought we talked about How is the old tour of Blue Jasmine As much as Woody Allen is, and I think Diane Keaton is as much as the O tour of Annie Hole is Woody Allen, it's because yes, he wrote it. Yes, he directed it, But her performance is what you talk about, and it was a performance. She was his girlfriend at the time. It was a character that was inspired by her and her family and the situations in it where situations that I assume were inspired by her life. Sort of what? Pedro Almodovar Cole's Odo fiction. So definitely Diane Keaton is the old tour of an A hole.

spk_0:   33:27
Hi. Hi. Oh, hi. Right. Well, bye. You play very well. Oh, yeah. So do you. Oh, God. What do you want? A dumb thing to say, right? I mean, you say, Well, men right away. I have to say, you play well. Oh, God, Annie. Well oh, well, blotted off. And there's something that I find so interesting. Also that especially in recent years besides Jasmine, which is like Dark Woody. But he also gave up Emma Stone the opportunity to play the woody circuit in that magic in the Moonlight movie in Irrational Men, which I think is so underrated, so good that we see that together

spk_1:   34:20
Way did see that together. I like both Emma and working in

spk_0:   34:24
it. And Emma, it's not Joaquin place, Woody, but Emma and I find that I don't know there's something fascinating about how his putting himself in women

spk_1:   34:34
Tell me why you think Emma is the Woody stand in and Irrational Man,

spk_0:   34:40
she said. She's the one who's like, you know, the very neurotic one, the clumsy one, the one who have all this conspiracy, you guess? Yeah, and also she manages to make herself very like dorky and very victim. Wouldn't an episode is, you know, one of those actors who always shows her intelligence. She's so smart. And those eyes always show, you know, her intelligence and investment issues does like a reddit kind of creature, you know, like just like conspiracy theories and like a year. So I think that people went into rational men thinking I was gonna be Joaquin. But as I call you, Fuck, it's Emmett Stone. It's plain Woody

spk_1:   35:26
now, now that you mention it, I can see it. And I definitely know I want to see a rational man again, which is not something that I thought I would want to. You know. Woody Allen has written all these characters for women, but he has also written some misogynist characters. If you look at the Mariel Hemingway character in Manhattan, Manhattan is a great movie. It's an inspiration. It's a movie that I think was an inspiration to a lot of filmmakers. It was an inspiration to me as somebody who was, you know, growing up. I saw it when I was very young, and it sort of represented to me like New York and life. It just represented to me like, you know, the life that I have now here in New York and this is so Woody is is not only inspirational to because he chronicled New York, which is the cultural capital of the world. In his movies, not only was influential two filmmakers, but just two people who wanted to have sort of a cultural life in the city. But it also that movie like When you see it today, that character of that 17 year old girl who was taken advantage of by this older man. It just doesn't sit right. So he was always a creep, is trying to

spk_0:   36:32
say and always will be.

spk_1:   36:35
And I guess in the seventies and eighties, people forgave. His creeping is but no more. And that's good. But let's talk about some other actresses who I mean Diane, we's Do you think of her one of the most brilliant comic actresses I think of her and Hannah and her sisters. But I also think of her as Helen Sinclair in Bullets Over Broadway, which is so funny, I mean, that don't speak scene where she just completely obliterates John Cusack off the screen, and you can't help but fall in love. And she has that deeper voice in that movie, which you've never heard Diane Wiest like. It's such a beautiful performance,

spk_0:   37:15
but I want to express. I told you, Don't speak. Please don't speak. Please don't speak. No, no, no. Go, go gentle Scorpio. Go your pace, ese. Which is you? Every happy return. Just don't speak. I think that she in many ways, you know, isn't that jasmine traditions like theatrical captures and bloody movies. Which is why it makes me kind of sad that I don't think has never had a show on Broadway.

spk_1:   37:53
Well, bullets over Broadway was,

spk_0:   37:55
but I mean, you know, like an original body script.

spk_1:   38:01
I don't think so. I mean, he did a lot of stand up at the beginning of his career, but I don't think he's ever had a proper

spk_0:   38:07
show on Broadway. I thought that Kate Winslet and Wonder Wheel that's extraordinary, but because she was, you know, drowned by the wooden Penis me and write the woody neatness of the media and by Ronan Farrow and by all those things which I'm not saying are wrong. But even like I think that we should be talking more about Kidman Sit and Wonder Wheel because it was one of those performances that the Golden Globes even know everyone.

spk_1:   38:42
Yeah, I think that movie just came out at the time when the world was just done with Woody, and also it came out in the shadow of Blue, Jasmine and blue. Jasmine was such a phenomenal success. Box office awards wise. Kate was really loaded. Everybody loved that performance, and there are a lot of similarities between Blue Jasmine and Wonder Wheel. It is there are two movies about a woman in crisis by the same director by actresses whose first name is Cape. So there's a lot of similarities between a man I think Winslet suffered because she was just in the shadow of Blanche. It even if the world was ready for one more woody, I maybe it just wasn't meant to happen, Okay, but somebody who got a lot of accolades is Penelope Cruz in Cristina Barcelona, which is another of similar to Helen ST Clair, in that she is not the center of the movie. But she is the one you leave the movie thinking about. She is like, Do you even remember Rebecca Hole or its guard? Truly, I mean, Scar Jo was in that scene where a penalty KRU stalking talks about what a genius she is, which is the comic highlight of the movie.

spk_0:   40:03
But no one

spk_1:   40:04
remembers any of the other actors even have your Bardem, who was sort of like the Woody standing in that

spk_0:   40:09
story. Yeah, no. One. That's just a Penelope.

spk_1:   40:13
It is. It is brilliant, and she, I think, bring something that the other Woody woman haven't brought, which is sexiness. Penelope Cruz cannot help but be sexy. But this is and this is where you sort of go back to that. Who is the O tour of This is it? The writer director isn't the actor because I haven't seen a woman a sexy expend elope cruise in any other Woody Allen movie or a performance the sexiest Penelope Cruz in any other Woody

spk_0:   40:41
Allen interior. I ask him, Ask him. He stole everything from me, his whole style. She likes to make up these stories. Plant on you. Your whole way of seeing is mine. I'm not saying that you were not influential. Financial. Yes, but I'm going to say I stole. Your style is too delusional. She always had problems with reality. And I'm not going to get angry. I'm not going to get angry. Okay. What did they say? Not at school. They said I was a genius, right? I always I always encouraged your talent. No talent. I'm not talking about talent. I said genius, genius. But, you know, since we're talking about that the the pretty women, it's really hard for me to talk about Jasmine, to think about Jasmine and not think of Jasmine French as a spiritual sibling in many ways. To Cecilia from the purple Rose of Cairo? No, they're both movies about women surviving an economic depression, women who lose everything and who are living in a country where everyone has just everything. And they're both women who given to fantasy. Yes, Absolutely. Uh, and even the last scene in Cairo is Mia Farrow sitting in the movie theater. And she would He shoots her almost in the same way that he shoots up Jasmine. You know, they're just women staring onto the screen of black eternity in a way, and obviously there's a little bit more. He's a little bit kinder. I think he's not unkind to Jasmine, though, but he's a little bit kind of. There's more hope in Cairo, although they're both. Those last shots and jasmine entire are so heartbreaking This'll women have lost their minds. What you doing better with your acting? You know I'm not Tom until Sheppard. I play Tom. How do you know Tom? No, you're Where's way scream? Thank you. Where's Tom? Why? Well, he's my character. I created him. But didn't the man who wrote the movie D'oh yeah, technically, But I made him live. I flushed him out. You did a wonderful job. He's adorable.

spk_1:   43:22
I'm glad you brought the Purple King Purple Rose of Cairo because that is a movie that's also you know it's interiors is Bergman, and I think that was his Fellini movie. It's beautiful, it's gorgeous. And it is Mia Farrow who was his muse for and made so many movies with him. That's definitely the movie that showcases, heard the best, and it is her best performance. But I think if we are talking about Blue Jasmine and sort of like which one in the Woody women is closest to Jasmine, I would say even interiors. It's another wife who's suffering from the dissolution of her marriage, and she is depressed. She is not functioning socially, and she also faces a tragic ending similar to Jasmine, Jasmine and sorry if I'm repeating this cause I said it in the previous episode that Ben should The end of Blue Jasmine is her coffin. I don't think she ever leaves it. Yeah, so drilled in page and interiors and it. It is a performance that she is not inasmuch of that movie as I thought. You know, I've seen it a while ago, and I was I went back to just see scenes from it, and she's not inasmuch of it, as I thought I remembered. But it's again. It's such a dominant performance in interiors that that's the one you leave with. Even though the movie goes on to tell the story of her daughter's played by Mary Beth Harris and Diane Keaton,

spk_0:   44:48
I kind of like,

spk_1:   44:51
yeah, Yes, Maureen Stapleton is danger. She is the ad to her. Yeah, she's the other line. Yeah, I love I Love Geraldine Page in Interiors and Kate when she started. She has been sort of compared a little bit, too Judy Davis, because they're both Australia and they have that sort of same temperament of being big actors. And Judy Davis is also wonderful and husbands and wives. And again, that's a movie where Judy Davis That movie is about Woody and his marriage to Mia. But again you leave. Was Judy Davis as their friend who is sort of brittle and dissatisfied and mad at everyone and can't orgasm. It's such a funny, funny performance. Judy Davis is amazing. And husbands in

spk_0:   45:40
Life speech about the boxes. Yes, that's a good I thought it was. It was an experiment. I didn't think it was. Finally, I didn't realize you were having an affair. Listen, if you're having some kind of personal thing, really, I'm okay. I don't really think I could do this. I have a feeling upset. Are you upset about? Woman gets to be over a certain age, becomes a different ball game. Don't defend your sex it's true.

spk_1:   46:19
So for you. You mentioned to Celia and the purple Rose of Cairo and we talked about interiors and about husbands and wife. What is the performance that you think is most linked to Jasmine in your mind? Of all these Woody women

spk_0:   46:34
on it, if I like pushing my theory that Jasmine is in some sort of weight, like bodies attempt to apologize or to try to like, I understand the fucking messy created for Mia Farrow in her and his son. I think that it makes total sense that, you know, he men are cowards. Straight men are cowards. And it would make total sense that he would send the women. He would send the mother to try to apologize to the son that he wrong. So for me, Uh, yeah, Jasmine and Cecilia are they might even be Wait,

spk_1:   47:12
do not Jasmine made up her whole history. You know, we talked a lot about Woody Allen movies about how influential he is. He's influential, like can you imagine Mila bomb back, for instance, without Woody, you know, that's that's just that's one of the reasons why we're talking about and talking about him is complicated. we're not definitely pro Woody or, you know, condoning his many alleged crimes. And I think the best as I was researching this episode, one of the clothes that I really that I really like is one that Emily Nossa Bomb, who was the TV critic for The New Yorker and is a wonderful writer. And she gave that in an interview to Terry Gross and NPR. And she's somebody who has talked a lot in articles and in this last book of hers, about how influential Woody Allen Waas to her growing up and how she wanted to be a cultural writer because of his work. And I love what she said, she says. I think Woody Allen is a criminal, but I still think about and might watch his old films. And that is sort of how I feel, too. Let's go back to the star of this Both cast Cade plan Shit. We have talked about her a lot. We love Kate. We love her in Blue Jasmine in 2013. She makes Blue Jasmine. She's loaded, people love it. It's was a comeback for her of sorts, because she hasn't made a movie in a while she was doing theater. She is back to being a movie star, and she wins an Oscar. She's at the top. She follows that with a collaboration with the director she loves and Todd Haynes with Carol that not only is a successful movie, I'm not talking about box office, but Carol is a cultural phenomenon. It's a movie that people love so much and talk about all the time. So this is sort of like at the height of her career. So I wanted to ask you, What

spk_0:   48:57
do you think of her output post Carol the house with the clock on the wall at Masterpiece

spk_1:   49:05
who shouldn't eight. You know, things. I just It's definitely she hasn't done anything that at the height of those two, no outs

spk_0:   49:15
after that. But also like, How do you talk those? I

spk_1:   49:21
mean, yes, it's very hard to top those two movies. And I remember this speech that she gave when she was honored for Carol in some festival, and she basically said, You know, Todd Haynes, Phyllis, um, you Rooney, you gave me this amazing opportunity and frankly, I don't know what to do next, and I think she's just still looking.

spk_0:   49:43
She open like a flower shop, like starting pay just like her here because also, because you haven't talked about this this episode but also the blue Jasmine press tour gave us my favorite Kate. Look, Aboul time that pink Balenciaga that all those like silly mortals kept saying made her look like a lamp shade. Yes. And I'm like, Okay, sit down and they learn like she put finish it, pull that ad from the archives of Bella said, Yeah, holy fuck is incredible. And that was Carol. She gave us like that, not that other that Jill moment in can. Yeah, yeah, I'm like, you know, she also that her best looks ever like

spk_1:   50:29
I mean, one of the things that somebody who has loved Kate for so long about Blue Jasmine and about her just being loaded everywhere from critics from audiences from awards bodies is just getting to watch her receive the accolades that I've been giving her in my heart for two decades. She's amazing. She's somebody who, like, you know when when she gives the speech or she appears on TV as herself. She's funny. She's erudite. She's somebody who you like to watch?

spk_0:   51:05
Is that what you gave her? The world is round.

spk_1:   51:07
Yes, the world is round people. Is her Oscar speech from Jasmine? Her sack speech was, Yeah, she was. And she talked about Judy Garland and barbiturates at the Golden Globes because I think she was a little drunk. She said she's been plied with vodka like Judy Garland was supplied with

spk_0:   51:30
barbiturates. That yes, the Armani. I'm kind of okay sometimes. Okay,

spk_1:   51:35
Yes, I think we're both very gay. And we just told the whole world how gay we are. We remember exactly what Kate was wearing just to close this episode. One final question. Have your thoughts about Kate change throughout the years? Because I think people who maybe don't fall I like to ask this question because people who don't follow her as closely as I sort of like she she dips and she leaves. She's not somebody who was always on the present in the culture, like she takes time off. She does think other things. She's not always in every movie. You know, e. I mean, there is a lot of people who work. Ah, lot. But Kate is not one of them. So I just wanted to ask you Has your opinion differed change throughout the

spk_0:   52:19
years? No, I don't think so. Except for like, the very silly childhood bribery that I talked about when I just discussed it. Like, you know, like my dad and I had this, like, Quinn It versus Kate. Been going on, but no kid flash with brilliant and even, you know, she's one of those artists who is always Oh, you know what she did. She did That documentary happened

spk_1:   52:43
Documentary Now, which is a brilliant half hour, a comic half hour.

spk_0:   52:47
We have, like, something great out there. You know, Kate is one of those artists who I will go see everything she said because she's always so interesting. And she, you know, even when she did that for movie like, it was so much fun that she put so much money to it. And no, my opinion, you know, with anything like my my awe of her talent has just kept growing because I even loved her in the present, which not even use it.

spk_1:   53:15
Yeah, I didn't. I I loved her. I just didn't think that show was great.

spk_0:   53:20
Yeah, you know, just like what? Your tens on some of the table.

spk_1:   53:29
She's very sexy in the present. Yes, So if you haven't seen the president on Broadway or in Australia and I am sorry it was skate sexiest performance. So his A. I think it's time now for us to go and get our Stoli martinis with a twist of lemon. So thank you so much for coming on the podcast. And before we go, can you tell our listeners where they can find you and your work?

spk_0:   53:53
You can find me on Twitter and everything that I write about and remember to

spk_1:   54:01
big boards and you can find me on Twitter at EMI, Underscore says, and find the podcast on Twitter and Instagram at Sunday's escape and until next time, thank you for listening.